Webinar Transcript
INTRO: There is a lot of pressure on farmers to be more resilient. But is everyone speaking their language? Our research uncovers what motivates them, what holds them back. From leaving the European Union to the challenges of climate change and geopolitical events, we're asking more of farmers than ever before. The challenges they face and who they really trust. Because to bring about real change, understanding and insight are everything. At Pinstone, we're rooted in agriculture, with decades spent helping organisations listen, communicate, and engage with farmers authentically. Now, through Pinstone Pulse, we are helping the industry keep its finger on the pulse with data and insight that informs more effective communication. Together, we can help farmers grow resilience and shape a stronger future for agriculture. Pinstone Pulse supports your organisation to listen even deeper. Pinstone, turning insight into effective communications.
Helen Maiden:
Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the launch of Pinstone Pulse and our first report –Sustainability: From pressure to partnership. We're streaming live today from the Candy Studios. So I'd like to say a big thank you to Ben and his team for hosting us today and for the production of our videos. In this session today, we'll be focusing on the findings from our report and crucially what they mean for organisations communicating with farmers and growers. I'm joined today here with my colleagues Hannah, Ben, Becky, and Beth who all bring different perspectives to the conversation. So, would you all like to please introduce yourselves? Hannah, kick us off.
Hannah Lloyd:
Thanks, Helen. Hi, everyone. I'm Hannah Lloyd. And really sort of the perspective I bring today and my role day-to-day at Pinstone is looking at where the synergies are for organisations, clients to work together, how we can work together to support farmers and the future of the industry. and I also tend to channel day-to-day the farming background I have having grown up on a pig farm and now being married to a beef and sheep tenant farm. So very grassroots at my end.
Ben Briggs:
Good afternoon Helen. I'm the newest member of the Pinstone team, but my career is quite a long one in journalism and agricultural communications. I'm the former editor and publisher of Farmers Guardian. I've worked as a consultant, worked in the public sector and yeah, just really interested in how we communicate with farmers particularly around sustainability. You know, most things you've got to communicate in the manner to which your family would like to be spoken to around issues like this. So, really pleased to be here this afternoon.
Becky Morgan:
Hi, I'm Becky. I was born into the farming sector and I've carved out career within this industry working as a comms specialist at Pinstone for the last 16 years. The sustainability space is something that I am deeply passionate about. I'm doing a lot of work in this area both personally and professionally and I think it's something that if we can get it right there's loads of opportunities here. So today I'm going to talk about what farmers think and feel when it comes to sustainability.
Beth Dixon:
So I'm Beth and I bring a slightly different perspective again to my fellow panel members here today. So I have spent the last two decades working in communications roles communicating with farmers both agency side and inhouse. So I do understand what it is like to need to balance the needs of business goals and also making sure the messages land with farmers.
HM:
Great. Thank you all. So, I know many of you joining us today are Pinstone clients, and I'd like to thank you all for your continued support. But for anyone less familiar with Pinstone, we're a communications agency working across agriculture, food, and the environment. And we're a full-service communications agency with a core focus on public relations. We're based in Hertfordshire, and we have a team of 22 consultants who are all passionate about agriculture, food, environment, and communications. At the heart of everything we do is reputation. Helping organisations communicate in ways that are credible, human, and effective. And that's exactly what sits at the heart of Pinstone Pulse and this first report. We wanted to listen deeper to our audiences to understand what they really think and feel and to ensure communications genuinely resonate rather than just add to the noise. We really hope today's session shapes how organisations and individuals communicate with farmers and growers around the broad and sometimes contentious issue of sustainability in a way that drives both trust and impact. At the end of today's session, there will be time for questions and on your screen you there should be a Q&A box. Please fill that in as we go. If technology fails us, you can email info@pinstone.co.uk and they should all get to me. So without further ado, I'll hand over to Hannah to explain more about Pinstone Pulse and why we chose sustainability as our first subject.
HL:
Thanks Helen. Hi everyone. So as a specialist agency working right across the food, farming and environment sectors just ticking into our 21st year, understanding the market, the landscape, the audience we're communicating with and really gathering that insight that is so invaluable is something we trade in and deal with day in day out. We take it for granted. That's what our clients are looking for, is that specialism from us. So, it's something we've been thinking about as an agency for a little while is how do we mobilise that information and layer that insight with credible research to just verify and ratify that insight, and how do we bring that to the industry to help move the dial in terms of sustainability?The other part of your question around why sustainability, we've seen a huge shift in our client base and in the types of campaigns we're running with clients. And we've seen, especially since obviously Brexit, BPS trailing down, SFI, SPS coming in, we've seen a real shift in the types of organisations that are wanting to communicate with farmers. And I think for us, sustainability, as Becky said, is something we really care about how we help the industry do it well and communicate it well to move the dial. But it's also something that we're talking about all the time now. So it was a natural starting point for us with our first report for Pinstone Pulse. The plan is that Pinstone Pulse will become a regular platform and regular insight will come through that so that we are bringing new things to the table. For this first report this year, we've worked with Disrupt and Potentia research specialists and they've used their opinion harvester farmer panel where we've commissioned quantifiable research with 344 farmers. As I say there's lots of detail. We're going to dig into some of it today, but obviously there's a whole report behind it to dig into. I mean from my point of view working closely on this project for a period of time now and looking at the findings that have come through, I think what really jumped out at me was how much farmers are already doing. Like I say in my farming roots at home I know it's a language we're talking in we don't necessarily say it in the way that some organisations want to hear, but we are doing a lot of activity to try and make sure our farm, we're leaving it in a better position than we find it. I think the stat was around 89% are looking at improving soil health or trying to improve soil health. Around 80% are already engaged in biodiversity and nature conservation. The list goes on. There's a lot of activity happening. But what I thought was really interesting is that 61% of the farmers surveyed said that they are willing to make significant changes to their businesses to be able to farm in a more sustainable way and become more sustainable as a business. So for me that's super interesting that there is so much ambition and appetite there. But I think the thing that sort of shows there is this sort of disjoint if you like is that 92% said they felt their efforts go unrecognised and I know Becky's going to touch on this a bit more but that is a clear gap and from a comms point of view. There's a need to make sure there's really good quality comms so that we move the dial and shift that gap, because without good comms we know things spread in not necessarily the right way and it's about how we make things really meaningful from a communications point of view. So that's sort of really the background.
HM:
You set the scene nicely. So Beck, obviously you come at this very much from a farmer's perspective. So Han’s explained why sustainability was the subject we've decided to focus on, but from a farmer perspective, what really came through for you?
BM:
Thanks, Helen. So how do we know that pressure doesn't work? I think it's because sustainability is such a personal subject for farmers. It's about their land. It's about their livelihoods, their money, their legacy. And I think that's why we've had such an emotional response that's really come through in our research. And I spend a lot of time working with farmers through my role at Pinstone, but also at local branch NFU level. I also sit on a steering group for an environmental farmers’ cluster group. Han also sits on that steering group with me. And I'm also farming at home. So I see very much firsthand the pressures that are coming from different directions towards farmers. So what comes through in this research is about conversations that are happening around kitchen tables at the moment. And when we asked farmers how they feel about the sector's ability to address some of the sustainability challenges, there was a mixed view on that. 44% feel really optimistic that we can rise to the challenge and address some of these sustainability issues. 29%, so nearly a third, however, are leaning towards a much more pessimistic outlook and I think the reasons behind that really point to the changing expectations but also the lack of recognition that we're receiving as an industry when it comes to our efforts already to date.I think probably something that did flag as slightly worrying is it that it tends to be those that have done the most that are now leaning towards the most pessimistic outlook and that potentially represents a real lost opportunity I think for an audience that was super engaged. It's the recognition gap that really stands out in our research as something that's kind of fundamental in this. 92% of the farmers that we surveyed felt that their environmental work goes unrecognised. 88% feel that there is misinformation from the public and 85% just think the public has completely unrealistic expectations of what the farming industry can actually achieve. And I think one farmer within our survey summed this up quite well where he said we're doing the work but we're carrying the blame. And I think this is a sentiment that a lot of farmers are probably holding right now. The reality on farms is much more positive than the public perception would have us believe. On average farmers are doing eight sustainable farming practices and from that we mean things like nutrient management, water management, perhaps some regenerative farming. And for many farmers this is considered to be just good farming practice. That does rise to 9.5 for larger scale farms and 9.6 for arable farms, which perhaps have just got a little bit more scope and scale and financial muscle to implement some of those changes. So actually there's a really good news story already out there in the industry about the work that that's already been done. I think for most farmers sustainability is already embedded very much in their day-to-day decision making but we know that we still need to be do more. There's more work to be done and perhaps some of us need to be moving a little bit quicker. So what's stopping farmers implementing more sustainable practices or going that step further? It'll be no surprise that the biggest barriers that farmers face are finance, policy instability and risk. Nine out of 10, farmers say economic pressure is what is holding them back in terms of making these changes. And I think everybody's very aware that cash is really tight on farms now. We've seen phasing out of the BPS, we've seen stopping of the SFI. Cash flow is definitely a pressure point there and it does typically require either new machinery or perhaps new infrastructure, perhaps new genetics to be able to make some of these shifts to sustainable practices. 66% worry that the government rules are going to change after they invest. And I think it's very easy to see why trust in government is perhaps lacking after what's happened over the last 12 months. 46% are concerned that reductions in profitability during any transition could be a problem. So for example, if we decide to cease using inorganic fertilisers, what are the yield reduction penalties before we might see any benefits in terms of soil health? So really overall the results of our research show that there isn't resistance to sustainability but farmers are having to make rational decisions on farm in what is a very uncertain environment at the moment. So I think within this complex environment where we've got both pressure from a sustainability perspective, but also the uncertainty that comes with that, where are farmers going for guidance? Who are they looking to that they can trust and help them make decisions making day-to-day. So Ben I'll hand over to you for that bit.
BB:
I was just going to ask you Becky, do you think that a bit more certainty from government in terms of policy would help with the confidence among farmers to take things on?
BM:
Yeah, absolutely. I think the change in goalposts is something that has really been cited and it's very much something that now that we're seeing a watering down perhaps of sustainability kind of commitments, possibly due to the Trump effect somewhat, but I think at one time the focus was very much on sustainability and now we're seeing much more focus perhaps around this food security narrative. Perhaps that leaves farmers in a position where they're thinking okay which direction are we going in but actually this isn't an either/or situation really. We need to be able to do both. But just quickly building on that point, I think what's really interesting is the opportunity we've seen with some of our clients where they have made a commitment to support farmers in their transition. They've put their money where their mouth is. They've sort of shown a bit of a roadmap through and really supported and stuck with it. And I think for me that's where there's a real opportunity. I know we've said private finance doesn't always feel like it's there for farmers, but actually we have got clients doing some really interesting initiatives that are actually really starting to move the dial and it is about just sticking with it, isn't it?
BB:
Well, I was going to say that's one of the things particularly from my time at Farmers Guardian and now at Pinstone is that it's always been very clear that building trust with farmers takes a long, long time. But I think that trust can be lost really quickly and eroded really quickly because ultimately farmers are constantly weighing up who to listen to, what it means for their business, and is it credible. And I think once that trust is damaged, like you were saying with government, then it's really hard to rebuild. And I think what this research by Pinstone shows is that farmers don't just listen to anybody, you know, they're looking for those trusted voices in the sector. And when we've done the research it showed that 54% of farmers are looking to advisers, 51% to the trade media and 50% to fellow farmers. And I think it just shows and I always felt this at FG and I know we have it at Pinstone, it's about that credibility. It's having empathy. It's being close to the farm gate and crucially speaking to farmers in their own language. Interestingly, only 5% believe that government is a credible voice on sustainability. And given some of the decisions that have gone on over the last 12 to 18 months, it's no surprise really. I think it shows that farmers care about sustainability, but it's the messenger that matters as much as the message. Our research shows that you know it's advisers, trade media, fellow farmers have a really strong role to play, but ultimately as well, digital channels are coming up in prominence particularly with younger farmers. So 78% say they're more reliant on social media than they were 5 years ago. 86% say they're engaging with influencers more than they did previously. And 74% Google it. You know they go, as we all do, to Google don't we to ask the questions for our businesses but what we're seeing is that farmers are using that kind of mixture of channels so it's legacy media, it's digital media and crucially does it reflect that kind of real life farming experience that they're living. I know that from a journalistic perspective you can be very cynical and I know this comes as a shock to all of you that I'm cynical, but sometimes in corporate communications, we believe that reach equates to credibility and that's just not the case is it? We see it all the time. We want numbers on social media digital but it's not about that. It's about bringing those credible voices in. So we know that effective communication combines trusted voices such as farmers, advisers, real world proof, not just abstract claims and that right mix of traditional and digital channels. And I think when they come together, you've got a real opportunity to build trust. But for me, I've always been fascinated by language. How do you bring across that you understand what farmers are feeling, how they're thinking, and how do we communicate that? And I know that's something we're going to touch on shortly, but how we communicate those messages around sustainability is key.
HM:
Thank you, Ben. We often talk about vanity versus sanity metrics and I know that the digital sphere does offer a lot of metrics but actually sometimes reputation is quite hard, well very hard, to measure but like you said trust is easily broken. I know that trade media is at your absolute core Ben and that you are very passionate about journalism in other industries. Trade media is definitely less relied on than it is in agriculture and we've seen through this research that it is still very heavily valued. Why do you think that is?
BB:
I think it goes back to that point, Helen, around the fact that farmers have trusted sources, they have people, they have brands that they deal with for a long time. Look, if you've bought one kind of tractor for 20 years, it's very rare that you're going to that you're going to change. But they also trust in people. And I think those kind of legacy media brands, you know, Farmers Guardian, Farmers Weekly, Scottish Farmer, others are available, but they have trust in them. There's credible people within them. There's really strong journalists. So, they kind of have that voice and they look to them as that trusted source. We understand that things are changing as well. You know, online dynamics, influencers, but farmers, I know from some consultancy work I did around 18 months ago that some influencers, they need time to build that credibility as well. It's not an instant thing just to engage with one person and expect that that's going to help your brand. It's about choosing the right people. You know, that's where companies like Pinstone are absolutely crucial to help companies navigate that that kind of an increasingly diverse kind of digital and legacy media ecosystem.
HM:
Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you, Ben. So, we've talked about farmers and we've talked about where they're getting their information from and I guess the missing piece now is around language. How do they want to be spoken to? I was at Sustainable Foods at the end of the month where they talked about how divisive some of the language can be and Baroness Minette Batters has said she could enter a room and talk about regenerative agriculture and the farmers would leave and the supply chain would lap it up. You know, different terms mean different things and I think one of the issues around sustainability is there is no clear definition and it means a lot of things to a lot of people and as Becky's already explained farmers are already doing a lot. So you can see if they're not spoken to in the right way ultimately it's going to get their backs up. So Beth, would you like to talk to us a bit about the language that we should be using and how best to resonate with farmers and growers?
BD:
Absolutely. Yes. So, I'm really excited to talk about language because as somebody who writes for lots of different clients nearly every day, the words that we use can really impact the outcome from our communications. And I think from everything we've heard today, it's clearly a really complex landscape. We can sit here and think, well, actually, are words really that important? But they are. We know that because 64% of farmers have said the language that we use directly affects engagement, which is incredible really when we think about it. And it's not a neutral subject matter either. So farmers have also told us that when we talk about farming and we talk about sustainability, that's really a motive. And I think again that makes sense. It's not just livelihoods, it's a way of life. It's generational. So of course it's a motive and it's a really tricky landscape but it's really important that we try and get this right. So I would say we need to remember that how we say things is just as important as what we say. Now there were some key tips and tricks if you like that have come through from the report that I think we need to all keep top of mind. So the first is that jargon is a big no-no. So 65% of farmers have said too much jargon is a turnoff. And by jargon we don't just mean acronyms or sort of technical descriptions. We actually mean corporate jargon, corporate language, which we are all too familiar with sort of with our business hats on. So terms like net zero, climate emergency just will not land. They are less likely to engage with those terms. Similarly, you mentioned regenerative earlier, Helen. Regenerative farming is quite divisive and the vast majority of farmers have also said that they are less likely to engage with subject matters relating to regenerative. And I think that's because it's still seen as more of an exclusive club, something you either are or you're not. So again, that makes sense. But on the flip side of that, farmers have told us that they engage most with phrases like farming with nature. So quite a large proportion of farmers, 92% of farmers said farming with nature is something that they can relate to and resonate with. Sustainable farming practices was another. And productivity also came up several times as well, which again, it makes sense. These are really astute business men and women who are running businesses. So unless sustainability changes are going to make an impact to their bottom line and their business practices, they're not really interested, which I think we can we can all understand. So this isn't about sort of dumbing down information at all. It's about being meaningful and really conscious of who you are trying to communicate with and making sure that you're on a level with them. So on the whole farmers are looking for plain practical communication. They're also looking for real world examples of sustainability and action. So we all know that we are much more likely to trust information that comes from people who we feel an affinity with. It's exactly the same with farmers. They're looking for that peer-to-peer sort of case study led information. And then finally, what I found really interesting was that farmers are also looking to hear from organisations who are willing to stand up for them. So they want recognition. They want to be appreciated. They need that that support and that recognition before being asked to do more. And that's really important.
HM:
Brilliant. Thank you, Beth. There's a lot to cover there, isn't there? A lot to unpack. I think we've summarised it in five key shifts, haven't we? You know, if we were to say, what are our key take-homes? We've got five key shifts that we're recommending today, aren't we Beth?
BD:
Yeah, absolutely. And those will appear on the screen now. But firstly, as I said, plain language is really important, but we must follow up with the detailed insight behind it. So simple framing, challenging yourself or your comms people to say, what's the simplest way of getting this communication across? I know we've had clients come to us with really complicated schemes or campaigns or technical products and actually it's our job to break that down in the most simple accessible way because that's how people engage and learn best. Second is the peer-powered piece. So making sure that you absolutely have sort of testimonials, case studies from farming peers within your communications plan. Third is making sure that farmers are being recognised before they're being asked to do more. I think that theme has come up time and time again today. We need that recognition before we ask them for more. And then fourth is aligning any sustainability narrative with profit and productivity as we've said farmers are businessmen and women at the end of the day. And then the fifth point which I think is really important is stability of comms. So yes, it is a really fast changing landscape, but fundamentally from a communications point of view, you need to be saying the same thing over and over again for a sustained period of time to build trust. And I think that's even more important in today's age of large language models, ChatGPT searches. People aren't searching on Google and clicking through to websites anymore. They're getting AI overviews before they do that. And actually the best way of being cited and visible and to cut through that noise is to be saying the same message through everything that you do.
HM:
Brilliant Beth. Thank you. I was going to also bring that up, to say when we talk about plain language and detailed insight, we have seen endless content produced by the large larger language models, haven't we? Like ChatGPT. And everyone can create content now because everyone can go on ChatGPT and get a blog written. But it has to be meaningful, doesn't it?
BD:
Oh, totally. Yeah. And I mean we are all experts at spotting AI copy now. You can have a lot of words that say very little. So yeah challenge yourself, challenge your ChatGPT, challenge your comms team to actually say: what is this telling us? If I don't get the gist of it within the first sentence, it's not impactful or meaningful enough.
HM:
Brilliant. Thank you. So thank you everyone for the discussion. It's really complex, isn't it? Every farm clearly has different challenges and opportunities. And I think that is what makes agriculture quite a challenge, there is no one size fits all. Everyone is different and everyone has different challenges. And I appreciate it can be incredibly difficult for farmers to know what the right decision is. They're not producing units that you can dial the factory up or down. These decisions take 12 months to put into fruition and, you know, many decisions are even longer term. Ben talked about the geopolitical shocks, the weather we're seeing, I mean, what is with that this year? Price volatility, labour shortages, there's a lot going on for farmers, and then you add this layer of complexity of this sustainability and what does it mean? What can they actually do and ultimately what's their financial reward? They're just being asked to do more and more and so I understand that for some farmers doing nothing may feel like the easiest thing to do, not necessarily the right. So I guess from that perspective we know that change is coming and we can see it and I think as Hannah set the scene, farmers have experienced a lot of change in the last few years: the loss of BPS, the introduction of SFI, the geopolitical shocks we're witnessing. There's a lot going on for them and I guess so my question now is to probably to Beth and Becky and Ben, how do you think farmers farms will look in five years’ time and what changes do you think we're going to see?
BB:
Yeah I think from my perspective there's going to be a greater professionalisation of agricultural enterprises. Farmers are increasingly making decisions that are based on the financial viability. I think that's why we say you can only make sustainability work if you have financial sustainability and I don't believe that is said enough actually I believe that there is this environment versus food production narrative that is too often there and I think the sustainability message is lost within that so yeah I think there's going to increasing professionalisation. Farms and farmers are going to remain at the heart of rural communities but I think that the nature of how those farms are run is going to be slightly harder-headed, you know, and to the point we made before, recognition before demand. Make farmers feel engaged. Make sure you're fighting their corner. I know when I was at FG, that was always a really key thing for me, I was the farmer's friend. I wasn't there to be this kind of critical friend and cast aspersions at them. We were there to fight for them. We were there to kind of articulate their concerns and I think organisations have to do that as well if you want them to engage with sustainable metrics. You’ve got to make sure that they feel like you're on their side. So yeah, it's a changing landscape, but change has always been there and I know you guys who are farming directly will know that probably better than I do.
BM:
I think the first thing to say is that sustainability and food production it isn't an either/or. The reality is it is intrinsically linked. However what might we see going forward? I think we'll probably see perhaps the larger scale farms, they'll be hyper-focused very much on the sustainability practices that really do go hand in hand with productivity and they'll be looking at that as kind of two things that absolutely need to be side by side and rightly so. Like we say they're the businessmen and women making really important decisions but I think they've probably got the scope and the scale to really be making profits out of more mainstream farming activity if you like. I think if you look at maybe the smaller scale farms that perhaps have less opportunity for food production, but perhaps their farms and their setup lends itself to other types of activity. Maybe we'll see more environmental projects going on those farms, hopefully facilitated by the flow of private finance into the sector. This is a cherry that's been dangled for quite a few years now and I know the government set out private finance as one particularly important arm in terms of plugging that gap following the removal of the BPS. So hopefully that is something that we will see come to fruition. If we can get the frameworks right, if we can get the accounting right and get confidence I guess from the businesses in the private sector who were asking to invest, I think we will see that coming and we'll see sort of nature-based projects on scale and perhaps on the more smaller farms.
HL:
I think something I'd just like to add on that point around what we'll see change in the next five years and for me it's something that clients and organisations can get more involved in. I think we'll see more collaboration and we should see more collaboration. Where organisations are really doing well I feel is where they're actually working with all those advisers that we know farmers trust, like every type of farm whether you're a hill farm in Wales or a dairy farmer in southwest you have a different circle of influence and making sure clients are identifying that and working with those key advisers and just joining the dots between stakeholders that work around those farms. For me, we've seen responses to disease outbreaks and things like that have worked really well. Where organisations have come together they all have their influence and their network to reach farmers, but actually much more powerful united consistent messaging so I'd like to see farmers working and facilitation funds – something we're quite passionate about but seeing farmers working together so they don't all have to become huge farms. The power in uniting.
BB:
I think there's a danger as well though, isn't there, for organisations, you know, getting those trusted advisers in being part of a network is absolutely key because you don't want to be accused of greenwashing. You don't want to be accused of just, you know, having a sustainability metric just for the sake of having it to prove a point. And we've seen that, I think, in some of the carbon markets as well, haven't we, with that kind of wild west early days in it. So yeah, I think communicating it and getting those trusted partners in that not only work for you as a business but also resonate with farmers is absolutely key.
HM:
I think there's one thing, Becky, you're keen on is the baselining and standardisation of data because we're not going to be able to move forward at pace without that.
BM:
Yeah. I think I think back to this recognition piece that farmers are feeling the reason why the recognition isn't there is because we simply cannot measure the value that farmers are delivering. So farmers are delivering food obviously which is a tangible metric, but actually what else are they delivering both from all the environmental stuff that they have done over decades and centuries? That's been happening for years and at the moment we haven't really got a standardised system in place that's universally accepted that allows us to quantify that properly. I think if we can get that in and I know the government's doing some work in that area at the moment, I think it'll be an absolute game-changer for that recognition piece to make sure that those are doing stuff already that's rewarded as well as kind of the progression from the level that we've got already. So I think yeah, you're absolutely right, baselining measurement piece is absolutely huge in the context of sustainability.
HM:
Thank you. And Beth, from your perspective then for if you're advising clients, what's the one piece of advice you would give them to help farm businesses move quicker?
BD:
I would suggest that businesses need to be clear on expectations. They need to work with farmers. So, open up genuine opportunities to have a two-way dialogue and communicate with them, not just at them, and be really clear again on what's in it for the farmer. So, the farmer isn't just going to do something for the greater good. It needs to benefit the farm as well. And let's be honest, we've talked a little bit about the Trump effect today and there is a bit of rhetoric out there that perhaps there isn't a need for so much of a sustainability focus over the immediate few years, but sustainability isn't anywhere. Fundamentally if a food product can't be produced in an environmentally sustainable and a financially sustainable way it won't be here.
HM:
Thanks Beth. So I've got some questions coming in so please keep them coming. I think this one I'll direct to Becky. It's around planning – to propel growth, we've got to get investment, we've got to get planning, infrastructure, but what narrative can we give to local communities to help support farmers in their plans for growth? So, the question is how can we get the public on side if we want to?
BM:
Yeah, I think we are really bad as an industry in communicating with the public. We are kind of our own worst enemies and perhaps there's organisations out there that are less aligned perhaps to agriculture and farming that seem to have a massive share of voice often and that's often what consumers are picking up on. So yeah, we do need to ensure that the public are on our side. I think back to what I was saying about that recognition piece and the fact that our role as farmers goes so much more broad than just producing food, although that is still fundamentally important. I think that appreciation for what farmers deliver to society as a whole, what we give to the rural community, it's generally kind of the farming community that's involved in local committees, PTAs, all of those sort of things. I think being able to kind of calculate those wider benefits and be able to communicate that better, but also just that engagement piece. And there's been a lot of conversation about bringing farming onto the agenda and curriculum in schools and how can we teach kids from a young age kind of the value that we bring so that actually they're more responsive and open when we want to expand or have plans to do things differently on our farms.
HL:
I think Ben could feel me twitching to mention one of our clients.
BB:
I know the client you were about to say.
HL:
Open Farm Sunday. I think this is where when we're talking to farmers and we're thinking about how can we tell your story as well, whether that's through corporate clients or through the work they're doing to get people and families out on farm, there is that wider benefit of actually people breaking down barriers, understanding what's happening beyond the farm gate and realising that it's a hardworking family doing a great thing, leaving the environment in a better place they found it. And I think that those opportunities to engage the wider community and that's like one of the key pillars of sustainability, isn't it? That social responsibility. And I think similar to economic, we often focus heavily on the environmental side and we overlook the social and the economic. So I think there's some fantastic initiatives out there where you can engage your wider community.
BB:
Yeah. And I think it's about sometimes showing the people behind the business, you know, showing the people behind that farm the work that they're doing. We know so many farmers, don't we, who are passionate about the environment and who have sustainable credentials at the heart of what they're about, but it doesn't often come to the fore, particularly within those kind of rural communities. So showcasing it, showing the people, giving it a face is absolutely key.
HL:
I think something we touch on when we're talking to clients is like, well, where's the colour? And we talk about the colour and it might be whether you're writing a really high level thought leadership report, but actually bringing in those human stories, which for us a lot of the time is farmers and letting them tell the story through the medium of the work we can do on their behalf is really powerful. It's much more interesting than just hearing that sort of corporate byline a lot of the time.
BD:
I was going to say that how people buy from people and people like to hear from other people and I think that the majority of people who go into the supermarket don't necessarily make the connection with the food that is on the supermarket shelves back to farmers. So I think there definitely is an opportunity to sort of bridge that gap and I know the schools piece is really important. There should be more about where your food comes from in schools. but yeah, bringing people through is really important.
HM:
Yeah, I read a stat the other day. It said less than 1% of time in schools is spent on food. I mean that's not even on farming, that's on food. And then that worried me because I was thinking, what about the next generation of consumer? They're not going to know how to cook or what good quality food looks like. And then that leads us onto a whole another conversation but it kind of does link nicely with one of the questions I've got here on how farming sustainability can be best communicated beyond the farm gate. Open Farm Sunday to point of purchase. I'm interested in both retail and out of home channels. I mean it's complex for the consumer isn't it? I think price and health are the two key factors that people are making their purchases and ultimately sustainable food is healthy food, but how would you best recommend to communicate I guess what farmers are doing and build on that recognition piece that they're lacking?
BM:
Sorry, just to jump in first. Yeah, I think just simple information, not over complicating it. So within our research, we looked at those sustainability practices that farmers are already implementing and we can say from what we've surveyed actually they're already implementing eight sustainable farming practices and I think that in itself is a very neat message that you could maybe package up. So kind of defining what sustainability means, what does sustainability look like on farm and then kind of being able to deliver those sort of metrics in a very simple clear way down to kind of consumer level through retail channels, you know, could be part of the strategy.
HL:
I think for me and we've seen it done really well by some organisations and people along the value chain already. We know farmers are particularly trusted by the general consumer. I think it's second only to nurses. So they are really trusted as an organisation and it’s that evangelical view isn't it of what it is to be a farmer which is not necessarily the reality but the fact that people enjoy and want to believe that their food comes from a farm that they can relate to and that's why it's breaking down those barriers and telling those stories and bringing that to them in a way that they're going to relate to and think about. It's the same as what we're talking about when we're thinking B2B, but actually just again thinking about your audience. What message is going to relate to them? What are they thinking about? What are they worrying about? And often it is down to financials and things. So positioning it in a way that yeah, they're going to take something from it.
BB:
I was a little bit upset that in that ranking of professions that journalists sat only 1% above politicians, but you said it. Yeah, that's why I've left it behind. But I think the political instance is really interesting. We've been talking to some industry leaders recently who were saying that government only look at the food supply chain and they don't consider farming within that. They're looking at that point of point of sale, you know the wholesalers, the retailers. So how do we get the recognition in there about farming and it goes back to that point as well about food security being national security as well. How do we get the policies in place to support farmers in the right way and ensure that if you've got a sustainable farming incentive or initiative, wherever it might be in the UK, that it's delivered in the right way and that it's helping farmers do that fundamental thing of produce food.
HL:
I think what's really interesting is that for large organisations along that value chain for scope three they have to show and measure that full scope three from an emissions point of view. But when it comes down to sort of valuing the food and farming industry, I won't recall the exact stats, sorry, but Minette in her Farming Profitability Review talks about the fact that fundamentally the food and farming sector is undervalued. It's not punching where it should be to have the right conversations at the right tables at times. So I think it is how do we as an industry all show the value and like unite behind why this is bloody important.
BD:
That's why language and narrative is important as well, isn't it? Like at Oxford Farming Conference back in January, we heard we need to change the narrative. We can't just make it all doom and gloom. We've got to speak positively about our sector and the opportunities and what the future holds as well. br>
HM:
Brilliant. I guess this one again goes back to Becky and Hannah, and it comes back to the word regen. So it's become a broad and somewhat fuzzy catch all contentious perhaps in some cases. Is there one regenerative practice that farmers have most enthusiasm for either because of the potential payback or just because it addresses an urgent issue?
HL:
I mean my views come in and add your thoughts please but it's very variable by sector, by farm type, by generation, like this is where all farmers are individuals and we see trends from cohorts but ultimately you are working with individuals and I think on the arable side, soil health and there's a lot, like we are quite far forward as a broad brush and our research shows that. But we know that perhaps on the livestock side it's more actually coming back to some of the traditional practices we've done for a long time; the role for native breeds and things like that but I think a lot of the time it is the language piece you've touched on Beth that actually sometimes you're saying the same thing but you can say it in a way that more farmers will engage with and again, are you at Groundswell or are you Cereals? Depending where you are, pick your language and communicate accordingly. We can't be as flat as just having a line and that's your line about a particular activity like you've got to tailor it depending where you are who you're talking to.
BD:
So yeah, I mean we looked at some of the sustainable practices within this report and how much work's been done, whether nobody's looking at it or whether there's a lot of effort being done. I think Hannah you mentioned soil health is something that's very tangible that farmers can see the instant reward from and we know farmers doing a lot of work around things like rotations, looking away more novel rotations because they know that actually if they can make their soil better and more productive that brings a whole host of benefits from improved productivity but also less reliance on inputs. So they can see a very direct correlation between those two things. If you move lower down the list for example and if you look at measuring carbon footprint as an area that maybe some farmers are looking at – yes some farmers are doing it but I don't think they necessarily see the route from A to B on that at the moment. I think the reality is actually measuring your carbon footprint is actually a really good practice to do because it gives you loads of really good insight in terms of where you can make efficiency improvements or cut down on certain things, but it's not always that apparent yet. And I think the other thing with that particular piece comes back to that that measurement and standardisation. There are so many different ways of doing it and at the moment we've got a situation where you're very often comparing apples and pears and it's not a level playing field. So yeah, I think soil health sort of new nutrient management that those sort of aspects we can definitely see farmers prioritising those areas of sustainable practices and then there's others that aren't quite landing as much and I think we need to reframe that. I think this regenerative terminology just generally is so divisive because I know speaking to a lot of farmers they feel that perhaps bigger organisations or maybe even people sat behind desks have come and framed a new practice that's going to save the world and a new way of farming and farmers, or certainly some farmers thinking hang on we've been doing this for years and then that instantly breaks the trust. You almost get that don't come here and tell me that you've got some solution that's going to save the planet. You know, I've been doing this for years. So, that's where we need to be really careful when we're sort of going from A to B with the messaging.
HL:
Also I think a clearer definition and a clearer understanding of sustainability itself. And I would probably frame the conversation more around resilience and actually that may be a better way of talking to farmers because everybody wants to have a resilient business and a resilient business is sustainable.
BM:
Yeah. And even looking at resilience through an environmental lens, even if perhaps the environmental aspect of sustainability perhaps doesn't necessarily speak to all of the farming community. I think there's probably not many farmers now that can't see the effects of climate change within their own businesses. We talked about this horrendously wet weather at the moment. We've had droughts. This the swings and the persistency of weather patterns is having a huge impact at farm level. So even if they aren't massively bought in on environmental sustainability, for example, they can see their impact on the business and the vast majority absolutely do want to do the right thing to mitigate that.
HM:
Thank you. Beth, how would you propose to share key messages with policy makers and NGOs who are working with farmers?
BD:
Oh, that's a really good question. Again, I would keep it simple. I know I've said it quite a few times today, but I would keep it simple and I would put farmers at the heart of any communication that you share onwards and upwards whilst also being mindful of what that policy maker audience needs to hear to be able to put forward a narrative to broader policyholders and decision makers ultimately. I think bringing it back to what exactly does this audience need from me and how can I frame this in a way that's going to help them achieve their goals as well. It's just thinking about what every individual wants to get from the situation
BM:
And perhaps even getting them in a room together sometimes to have that conversation. And we've seen it so much with our farmers’ cluster group where we're working with some of the NGOs but there's a real disconnect between the two organisations, although the goal is actually mutually shared but we can't somehow very often get the two to marry up. So there's resistance from a farmer level often because the NGOs don't understand some of the practicalities of farming; equally farmers don't necessarily understand some of the good that's that some of these organisations are actually trying to achieve. So maybe getting them physically in a room together would help.
HL:
I totally agree, Beck. But I think where we've seen it like how do we overcome that disjoint? That challenge that sometimes happens at the center of that is where you've got a farmer in the room who's perhaps already done a project with said NGO and they're actually a positive mouthpiece and an advocate of, actually they're good the good guys. They're trying to do some really good work here and that then suddenly starts to break it down because farmers are hearing it from their fellow farmers. And it comes back to what you touched on Ben, doesn't it? Actually if we can get that circle of influence around farmers to be speaking positively about what said organisation is trying to do then it really does start to build trust.
BB:
Yeah, I think you're right Hannah and I think also we know that the civil service is under huge strain from budget cuts; they are going to start looking more and more to NGOs for advice and guidance. So we've got to be proactive as an industry. And I think it goes the other way as well, doesn't it? We've got to get those kind of really coherent farmer voices out there and show them the impact of those policies in the real world settings. That's got to be key to articulating sustainability and how it applies in the field and on the farm. And we've got a great opportunity, I think, but it's going to come at a time of almost, you know, a bit of austerity within the public sector as well. br>
HL:
On that I think we've done a lot of work over the years at Pinstone on the animal health side of things where we chair and bring together key stakeholders on a mutual issue around animal health and welfare and we've seen NGOs work really positively and collaboratively with the industry and actually everyone's learning from both sides and hearing why and what and like you say understanding what's at the heart of said ask or demand and actually understanding well that's why it doesn't land for farmers because it fundamentally doesn't work in practice or whatever it might be. It's those practical, good solid simple communications at the heart of it.
HM:
I think we've got time for one more question and it leads quite nicely onto this and it's on that recognition piece. So we know that farmers aren't feeling recognised but how do we move the dial on recognition? Is it through data and tangible evidence or is it through storytelling?
HL:
I think there's a role for both. But again, data, not for data's sake. Like we said, you said it right at the beginning, data that helps tell a story and show what we're doing, not just nice rhetoric, actually putting a bit of substance behind it. But again, depending on your audience layering it accordingly.
BB:
I think also as well, you know, from a farmer perspective, we heard the metric before, didn't we? That they're kind of doing all the work, but you know, are they seeing the financial benefits? So they're getting the right incentives from government from a payment perspective and I think we've got to factor that in as well. You know we can tell the story, we can have all the data. I mean this is probably Pinstone Pulse two around data but you know the data thing is a huge elephant in the room as well. So yeah it needs to be multifaceted, I think.
HM:
Yeah. Anything to add Beth there?
BD:
I would just add as a professional storyteller that storytelling is really important. I think in every setting, not just farming and food, the most memorable campaigns, the most memorable things that stick in your mind have a really great story around them. So I think you can have all the data in the world, but if you don't tell the story around it, then you it won't be impactful. I'm waving the flag for storytelling.
HL:
To be fair, Beth, at Oxford, Jack Bobo, who I've I know a lot of you might have seen speak, I always think he's a great speaker, tells a story very well on stage, but he mentioned the term, didn't he, that language and stories can either bring us together or draw us apart. So if you don't use the right language or don't tell the right stories, it can create chasms, whereas the other way you can actually pull people together. So yeah, completely agree.
HM:
Oh, great. Thank you guys. Thank you for all of your contributions today. Thank you everyone for joining. I really hope that you have got something out of today's session and that you will have received the report on email. If you haven't for any reason, please let us know and we'll get a copy sent out to you. But yes, thank you for joining. Thank you again to all of our clients who have joined us today. And if anyone would like any further information on Pinstone, please do drop us an email. There are a couple of questions, a few questions I didn't get to. So, if you would like us to answer them, please if you pop them on email to info, we can then get them get a reply out to you. And I'm sorry we didn't have time for it all, but we have now run out. So, thank you for joining us. there's a short video to come from Catherine Linch, our founder and managing director of Pinstone. I forgot to say at the start, but Pinstone celebrated 21 years at the start of this month. So, a huge milestone for Pinstone and we thank Catherine and Robin for all of their leadership and support in growing Pinstone into the agency it is today. Thank you. Thank you for joining the launch of our first Pinstone Pulse report from pressure to partnership. At Pinstone, everything we do starts with listening; taking the time to really understand audiences, what drives them forward, what holds them back, and what their actual reality is in the here and now. And as communications consultants, we work with clients to navigate the complexity and embrace true engagement. And it's that that leads to change. We're about cutting through the noise and the jargon and telling stories that are clear and credible and that are actually rooted in what's happening on the ground. Because real trust isn't built on telling people how to think or how to feel. Real trust is built in communication that is honest and human and that recognises the progress that's already been made. We believe that lasting change comes from partnership, not from pressure. And when people feel supported and recognised and they're actually part of the solution, then they are inspired and from that progress is made. And that's how we as Pinstone help organisations to move forward, to build trust, to strengthen relationships, and to deliver positive impact.
